Bug 646418 - text too small for high DPI users and users lacking excellent vision
text too small for high DPI users and users lacking excellent vision
Classification: openSUSE
Product: openSUSE.org
Classification: openSUSE
Component: Infrastructure
All All
: P5 - None : Major (vote)
: ---
Assigned To: Marcus Rückert
Lars Vogdt
Depends on: 1065560
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Reported: 2010-10-14 03:02 UTC by Felix Miata
Modified: 2020-03-04 22:17 UTC (History)
3 users (show)

See Also:
Found By: Other
Services Priority:
Business Priority:
Blocker: ---
Marketing QA Status: ---
IT Deployment: ---

draft user stylesheet for opensuse.org (4.61 KB, text/plain)
2010-10-14 03:02 UTC, Felix Miata
contextual features.opensuse.org screenshot @133 DPI (419.65 KB, image/png)
2010-12-11 02:17 UTC, Felix Miata
contextual screenshot of a forums page with no user defenses employed (221.70 KB, image/png)
2011-10-07 01:11 UTC, Felix Miata
screenshot of same opensuse forum page with both site-specific and generic user styles applied (183.69 KB, image/png)
2011-10-07 01:12 UTC, Felix Miata
user styles (3.46 KB, application/x-gzip)
2011-10-07 08:23 UTC, Felix Miata

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Description Felix Miata 2010-10-14 03:02:56 UTC
Created attachment 394835 [details]
draft user stylesheet for opensuse.org

+++ This bug was initially created as a clone of Bug #203468 +++

This is actually an accessibility as well as a usability issue: opensuse.org is generally difficult to impossible use as currently styled at high DPI and/or high resolution settings without using a browser's zoom or minimum size functions.

Web page text  should never be sized in px. Most web page text should be left at the user's default size so that he can read it without doing anything more than arriving there. All pages I have recently sampled now have text sized at 12px or 13px, making it about 7pt or smaller on high resolution displays. User default sizes are just right. Ignoring them entirely as is now done is horribly rude. User defaults should be left to operate by styling from a 100% of default base, with all sizing limited to context as smaller or larger may be appropriate for specific elements, such as headers, footers, parentheticals, superscripts, etc.

http://qa.mandriva.com/show_bug.cgi?id=24695 describes the exact same problem, so the screenshot attached there should suffice here.

URLs futher describing what's involved on the subject:

I use Novell's web sites so often that I employ user styles specifically for those base URLs I need most often in my main browser. Yesterday I realized I needed to spend considerable time to update those styles after a visit to http://forums.opensuse.org/english/ . The result's current state is attached.
Comment 1 Robert Lihm 2010-12-10 09:23:10 UTC
I switched the basic font-size to 1em (for <body>). Do you still have problems?
Comment 2 Thomas Schmidt 2010-12-10 13:47:50 UTC
Please also check the font sizes on features.opensuse.org. 
We might want to use them as defaults.
Comment 3 Felix Miata 2010-12-11 02:17:20 UTC
Created attachment 404446 [details]
contextual features.opensuse.org screenshot @133 DPI

It's better than http://suseware.com/bento/, but nothing close to good. I tried also to make a similarly contextual screenshot of http://en.opensuse.org/ or https://en.opensuse.org/ but either way get:

     403 Forbidden # legible
     This site does not support HTTPS. Please try again using HTTP. #illegible

Being much busier than http://features.opensuse.org/, http://en.opensuse.org/ (aka http://en.opensuse.org/Main_Page) is as a practical matter worse, with much too long lines of tiny text and far more illegible links.

It never ceases to amaze me that so many web stylists think it OK to size most page text smaller than browser UI text, as is demonstrated here, when, being less familiar to visitors, it ought to be larger. Rude it remains, compounded by contrast designed for people using improperly adjusted (overbright/overcontrasty as delivered by the factories for maximum impression in brightly lit retail stores) displays.
Comment 4 Felix Miata 2011-10-07 01:11:11 UTC
Created attachment 454975 [details]
contextual screenshot of a forums page with no user defenses employed

Note that the forum page's dominant text size is a tiny fraction of the UA's UI text, and a tinier fraction of the UA default size. The actual legibility is further reduced by the low contrast between the gray text and white background.
Comment 5 Felix Miata 2011-10-07 01:12:04 UTC
Created attachment 454976 [details]
screenshot of same opensuse forum page with both site-specific and generic user styles applied

The mess exhibited here is a consequence of application of site specific user styles applied in an attempt to combat the rude (tiny and low contrast text) site styling. User styles are virtually impossible to employ on sites such as this that burden the content with 150k or more of CSS. As a practical matter that much CSS is much too complicated to counteract, if not to maintain. Minimum text size and zoom do a better job for people who only need defenses occasionally, but aren't very friendly when both initial and recurring visits to many site pages are necessary.
Comment 6 Felix Miata 2011-10-07 08:23:33 UTC
Created attachment 455005 [details]
user styles

to reproduce attachment 454976 [details]'s viewport area exactly:
1-open a 120 DPI desktop
2-unpack the content of this attachment into a Gecko profile's chrome directory
3-open the Gecko
3-set the Gecko's default font size to 20
4-set the Gecko's monospace font size to 18
5-open http://forums.opensuse.org/english/get-technical-help-here/install-boot-login/408396-cups-deamon-not-accessable.html

Attachment 454976 [details] was made using SeaMonkey 2.3.3 (rv6.0.2 Gecko) on OS/2, but I reproduced it easily with Firefox 7.0.1 (rv7.0.1 Gecko) in KDE3 on openSUSE 11.2.
Comment 9 Felix Miata 2014-05-28 21:20:35 UTC
Update of last two links in comment 0:
Comment 10 Felix Miata 2015-06-12 20:54:38 UTC
A related A11Y/U9Y reference:
Low-Contrast Text Is Not the Answer

https://bugzilla.opensuse.org/skins/contrib/openSUSE/global.css line 22 specifies color #404040, which serves no purpose but to possibly please the site stylist. Contrast in the primary content needs no reduction from maximum. Those who have a problem with high contrast need only to adjust their displays appropriately - downward is always possible until 0 is reached. The converse is not true. Those who need more cannot adjust beyond 100%, which is the setting many displays ship with in order to maximize presence and desirability on brightly lit retail store shelves.

Gray compounds the problem that is too small text.
Comment 11 Marcus Rückert 2020-03-04 22:17:44 UTC
not sure this is still valid